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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 217 for the 16th of

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December 2012 Richard Saunders here with

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you from an overcast but hot and steamy

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and muggy Sydney Australia we're going

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to kick off with dr. Reggie reports dr.

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rage is going to fill us in on the very

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recent developments with the Australian

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vaccination network or what will they be

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called in the future because the

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minister of fair trading in the state of

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New South Wales has acted and has told

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the Australian vaccination network that

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they are not to continue trading under

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that name because that name is basically

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deceptive Wow amazing news amazing news

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more about this at the top of the show

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with dr. ray Chira ports and following

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that we have an interview with a very

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very dear friend of mine Lynn Kelly now

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Lynn Kelly in skeptical circles his

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famous for being a very good cold reader

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in fact she is really one of the best I

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have ever seen she's written a book

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called the skeptics guide to the

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paranormal she doesn't claim any magical

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powers of course she does cold reading

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to demonstrate how cold reading works to

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people well that was some years back and

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more recently Lynn has been writing

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books about crocodiles and spiders but

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now Wow now she's come up with a very

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interesting new theory regarding

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Stonehenge yes Stonehenge and no some

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someone wrote to me on Twitter saying

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what's this new theory is that that

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Stonehenge was a landing site for UFOs

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no no no it's a sexually this theory is

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really down to earth it's really

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interesting it's engaging and you'll

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find out more about that with Lynn Kelly

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coming up a bit later on in the show

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then to round off the show it's Maynard

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Maynard at the Australian skeptics

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convention a few weeks ago at the meet

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and greet the drinkies the social aspect

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of scare

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de scizzum may not runs around with his

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microphone chatting to all sorts of

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people from around the world who were

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attending the Australian skeptics

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National Convention and asking them why

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they're there and what they expect and

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what they hope good stuff really good

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fun stuff from Maynard now a couple of

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little notes from me if you visit www

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skeptics calm day you and at the top

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you'll find a little link that says

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features you click that or your mouse

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over it and then you click the item the

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menu item that says the $100,000 prize

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click that you can now download our

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$100,000 prize brochure the one from

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Australian skeptics now it's in the form

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of a check you can print out and pass

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around and I admit that we stole this

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idea directly from the James Randi

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Educational Foundation Thank You jf

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great idea we've Nick your idea we've

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made our own one so folks if you're in

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Australia download the one hundred

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thousand dollar prize flyer print it out

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and give it to your favorite psychic now

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for all you skeptics listening to me in

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the state of Victoria here in Australia

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on Twitter on Twitter you can follow

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skeptic go vick ske p TI SI govt I see

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skeptic go vick is your one-stop shop

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there on Twitter for information about

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skeptical adventures and organizations

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and gatherings in the state of Victoria

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but it gets better than that if you head

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over to Facebook and you do a search for

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skeptic groups of Victoria you can find

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the facebook page so there you go

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skeptics in the pub social opportunities

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meet and greets all sorts of things on

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Facebook and Twitter that skeptic groups

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of Victoria check it out now before we

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start the show in the past week an

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interesting date came and went 12 12 12

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the 12th day of the twelfth month meld

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the 12th year taught off and it was

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brought to my attention that a certain

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astrologer Jessica Adams

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wrote some predictions for the 12 12 12

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date and these ended up on the Internet

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so I'm going to cue up some mystical

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music and I'm going to read out the

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posting that appeared back it up save

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everything before 12 12 2012 by Lucy

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cheapest as published online at news com

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au December 11 2012 before you leave the

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office tonight back up everything

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important on a USB stick that's the

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advice from astrologist and Jessica

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Adams who told News comte you that

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tomorrow's date of 12 12 2012 will

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spelled chaos for the internet and the

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media world quote on 12 12 12 the world

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is feeling the impact of a stressful

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pattern between mercury and Neptune the

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planet that rules leaks like WikiLeaks

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and also flooded computer networks and

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quote said Adams just how this disaster

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and chaos will play out is anyone's

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guess but Adams said it pays to be

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prepared but the news isn't all bad

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because tomorrow's date is significant

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for other reasons too for one thing it

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is the last time we'll see those numbers

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in our lifetime there will also be

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plenty of weddings as people believe the

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synchronicity of the date is an

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indication of prosperity and longevity

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however the reprieve will be short-lived

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adam said the chaos is predicted to

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return on 21st 12 2012 yep that's the

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same date the main calendar has

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predicted the end of the world quote on

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21 12 12 Jupiter in Gemini which rules

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the media is in a critical pattern that

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is also the day anonymous threatened to

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attack some Internet platforms end quote

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said Adams button down the hatches

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so there you go folks I'm sorry that the

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internet went into chaos on the tour of

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the 12 12 I don't know how we all

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recovered but somehow we did but for now

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I'm going to run downstairs i'm going to

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open the fridge i'm going to get some

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leftover chops from the BBQ and have

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some hot sauce here that sounds pretty

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nice yeah why not and while i'm enjoying

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those chops i'll let you enjoy the

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now it's time for dr. Rachel reports

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with dr. Rachel Dunlop hello listeners

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and welcome to dr. Rachel reports well

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we had some big news overnight in

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Australia with the New South Wales

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Government ordering the Australian

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vaccination network to change their name

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or face closure the news head at

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midnight on Friday night as a news

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article appeared describing an order

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given by the Department of Fair Trading

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directing the notorious Australian

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vaccination network to change their name

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or face deregistration the move follows

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what has been described as numerous

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complaints from both the public and the

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Australian Medical Association that the

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name the Australian vaccination network

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is misleading to the public and confuses

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parents when searching for reliable

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information on vaccinations several of

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these incidences have been reported

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publicly including a misunderstanding by

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the Australian College of Midwives who

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mistakenly sent out invitations for an

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avian seminar to all its members in a

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story published in medical observer

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magazine the executive officer miss and

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Kinnear said subsequent information

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that's come to hand has made me realize

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it's a mistake she was unaware until her

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membership informed her that the avian

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was an anti immunization lobby as far

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back as 2009 the Australian skeptics

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with sponsorship from Dick Smith took

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out a full-page ad in The Australian to

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warn parents not to look to the avian

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for health information during the flurry

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of publicity that ensued from this

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campaign Dick Smith said they are

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actually anti-vaccination and they

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should put on every bit of their

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material that they are anti-vaccination

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in great big words they have every right

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for that belief but they should

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communicate it clearly so people are not

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misled in 2011 the minister for health

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the honorary Jeff Wilson and the

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Queensland chief health officer issued a

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statement about the avian saying

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change groups like the misleadingly

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named Australian vaccination network are

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wrong to discourage people from getting

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vaccinated and indeed parents commenting

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on the stop the avian Facebook page have

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shared similar stories like this one

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dear Merrill I was attracted to the

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avian several years ago because the name

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suggested that you might be a reputable

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source of information about vaccination

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I found nothing of a sort on your site I

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was indeed misled and deceived by your

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name and I'm not the only one of course

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the avian are not the only ones trying

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to hide their true agenda from the

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public but if you scratch the surface of

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their slick pro-choice website you

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quickly find an anti vaccine and gender

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and never has this been more obvious and

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in the t-shirts they sell which say love

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them protects them never inject them and

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then there was this comment from Merrill

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Dory just two days ago to her yahoo list

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which said just like there is no

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evidence that vaccination prevents most

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diseases if there is evidence I've yet

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to see it but in recent years in

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Australia things have changed and the

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media has been challenging the avn on

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their pro-choice stance which is what

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they go by Lester's may recall a radio

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segment with the to marie's where they

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suggested Merle was anti-vaccine and she

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screeched I am not yet when journalists

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ask the question so which vaccines would

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you recommend the silence is deafening

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further evidence for the avians claims

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of being a pro-choice organization a 12

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month investigation by the healthcare

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complaints commission also deemed their

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website to be anti-vaccine and

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misleading after investigating the site

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they concluded that the site provides

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information that is solely

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anti-vaccination contains information

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that is incorrect and misleading and

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quote selectively from research to

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suggest that vaccinations may be

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dangerous even more recently the avian

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has been referring to themselves as

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australia's vaccine safety watchdog

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which of course they're not but it

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certainly makes them sound more credible

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the practice of anti-vaccine groups

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using misleading names is certainly not

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new in the u.s. there is the nvic run by

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barbara Lou Fisher

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that's the National Vaccine information

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service in Brisbane there is the vaccine

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awareness and information service so VA

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is and in New Zealand there is

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vaccination information network or vine

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it took Merrill longer than expected to

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bash out a blog post about this latest

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threat to free speech and suppression of

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information but she didn't disappoint

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she suggested that if the avian were to

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change their name then why can

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Greenpeace continue unabated quote

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Greenpeace is not green nor do they go

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around looking for peace therefore with

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the Department tell them to change their

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name to she also suggested that the name

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the cancer council might be misleading

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leading to people thinking they're pro

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cancer obviously but in contrast to her

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usual rabid foaming blog posts today is

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just seemed defeated and tired in

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addition the avian recently spent a wad

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of cash and substantial time migrating

277
00:13:07,329 --> 00:13:05,069
their website to WordPress only to have

278
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it infected with a cheap pills hack

279
00:13:11,569 --> 00:13:09,660
yesterday I was not even able to reach

280
00:13:13,519 --> 00:13:11,579
their site as I was being redirected to

281
00:13:16,069 --> 00:13:13,529
direct pills from three browsers and

282
00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:16,079
this morning the entire site was pinging

283
00:13:21,829 --> 00:13:20,399
403 errors I'm afraid the cracks are

284
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:21,839
beginning to show for the avian and

285
00:13:25,549 --> 00:13:23,610
Merrill doreen the Department of Fair

286
00:13:27,710 --> 00:13:25,559
Trading has indicated they can cancel

287
00:13:29,929 --> 00:13:27,720
the avians registration if they do not

288
00:13:33,079 --> 00:13:29,939
comply to this order to change the name

289
00:13:34,999 --> 00:13:33,089
by februari 2013 and i want to emphasize

290
00:13:38,659 --> 00:13:35,009
the minister said this is not a request

291
00:13:40,909 --> 00:13:38,669
it is an order this means they lose

292
00:13:44,030 --> 00:13:40,919
their incorporated status which Merrill

293
00:13:45,769 --> 00:13:44,040
says will force them to shut down in any

294
00:13:47,329 --> 00:13:45,779
case it seems her fans have missed the

295
00:13:50,449 --> 00:13:47,339
point of the reason for the name change

296
00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:50,459
order that is it is misleading and have

297
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offered some of the following

298
00:13:56,419 --> 00:13:54,649
suggestions on the avians Facebook page

299
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vaccination truth and transparency

300
00:14:01,460 --> 00:13:59,309
Network Australian vaccination

301
00:14:04,340 --> 00:14:01,470
Information Network Australian

302
00:14:06,889 --> 00:14:04,350
vaccination choice Network vaccination

303
00:14:09,289 --> 00:14:06,899
truth and transparency network and this

304
00:14:11,210 --> 00:14:09,299
is my favorite so far telling the truth

305
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:11,220
about things at Big Pharma [\h__\h] and

306
00:14:16,699 --> 00:14:14,970
useless media will not drink if you'd

307
00:14:18,439 --> 00:14:16,709
like to comment on this blog post or

308
00:14:19,820 --> 00:14:18,449
read more information you'll find it on

309
00:14:22,430 --> 00:14:19,830
my blog at skeptics

310
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:22,440
book calm which I haven't blogged on for

311
00:14:27,650 --> 00:14:24,570
ages but this gave me a reason to do so

312
00:14:42,180 --> 00:14:27,660
and until next time this has been dr.

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00:14:48,580 --> 00:14:45,520
ein grosses hello an ally Dawson to her

314
00:14:50,380 --> 00:14:48,590
letter skeptics on podcasts boasted here

315
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:50,390
this is alan Deutschland and in skeptic

316
00:14:55,030 --> 00:14:52,370
a fab and gift for vital information

317
00:14:59,890 --> 00:14:55,040
Oberon's want a skeptic a magazine

318
00:15:04,810 --> 00:14:59,900
reserved v.v.v point gavey oop a punk

319
00:15:07,180 --> 00:15:04,820
talk vida holla vvv pumped TV rupee Paul

320
00:15:24,510 --> 00:15:07,190
talk on tons of it say on facebook

321
00:15:31,330 --> 00:15:28,170
Lynn Kelly is a skeptic and author and

322
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:31,340
one of the best cold readers I have ever

323
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:34,010
seen I caught up with a limb Kelly a few

324
00:15:44,250 --> 00:15:36,490
days ago to ask her about her

325
00:15:52,650 --> 00:15:48,550
and joining me on the line now is author

326
00:15:55,330 --> 00:15:52,660
Lynn Kelly hello Liam hi Richard now i

327
00:15:56,890 --> 00:15:55,340
must say that when i went down to the

328
00:15:58,600 --> 00:15:56,900
australian skeptics convention i saw

329
00:15:59,740 --> 00:15:58,610
your name on the list of speakers i was

330
00:16:02,980 --> 00:15:59,750
quite pleased because we're old friends

331
00:16:05,530 --> 00:16:02,990
of course going back many years and i

332
00:16:07,210 --> 00:16:05,540
was a delight because I saw you speak in

333
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:07,220
Sydney I speak seen you speak in

334
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:09,410
Canberra and other locations but on

335
00:16:14,410 --> 00:16:12,290
different subjects most notably things

336
00:16:17,290 --> 00:16:14,420
like cold reading and how to teach

337
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:17,300
skepticism which is all very good but I

338
00:16:22,630 --> 00:16:21,050
was completely unprepared by your talk

339
00:16:25,390 --> 00:16:22,640
in Melbourne of the Australian skeptics

340
00:16:28,060 --> 00:16:25,400
convention when I saw the the previs the

341
00:16:29,950 --> 00:16:28,070
the outline of the talk I I really

342
00:16:33,220 --> 00:16:29,960
didn't know what to think of new theory

343
00:16:36,010 --> 00:16:33,230
about Stonehenge but i must say that and

344
00:16:37,450 --> 00:16:36,020
it's been a couple of weeks has gone by

345
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:37,460
and I've thought about it a lot i'm

346
00:16:43,510 --> 00:16:40,130
still quite blown away by the

347
00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:43,520
presentation you gave can you tell our

348
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:47,600
audience I know it's hard to do it in a

349
00:16:51,130 --> 00:16:49,250
brief amount of time but you could sort

350
00:16:52,420 --> 00:16:51,140
of let our audience know where you're

351
00:16:55,540 --> 00:16:52,430
coming from with your theory on

352
00:16:58,890 --> 00:16:55,550
stonehenge yes it is very hard to do it

353
00:17:02,740 --> 00:16:58,900
briefly unfortunately basically I've

354
00:17:05,170 --> 00:17:02,750
looked at all cultures in terms of how

355
00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:05,180
these guys are the same physiologically

356
00:17:10,120 --> 00:17:07,280
as us before they have the same

357
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:10,130
intellect as us and how do they remember

358
00:17:14,620 --> 00:17:12,050
so much stuff when they don't have

359
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:14,630
writing in particular the scientific

360
00:17:19,570 --> 00:17:16,850
stuff so I'm I'm trying to move away

361
00:17:21,850 --> 00:17:19,580
from this concept that oral cultures

362
00:17:23,860 --> 00:17:21,860
people without writing live in some fog

363
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:23,870
of superstition and have some

364
00:17:26,970 --> 00:17:25,970
intrinsically with the land that you and

365
00:17:30,690 --> 00:17:26,980
I don't have

366
00:17:33,390 --> 00:17:30,700
and that's what I've loaded on and they

367
00:17:36,419 --> 00:17:33,400
use the most extraordinary lot of memory

368
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:36,429
aids to remember heaps of stuff just one

369
00:17:41,820 --> 00:17:39,970
simple example the Navajo remember 706

370
00:17:44,370 --> 00:17:41,830
classified for three different levels

371
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:44,380
and the whole lot is kept in memory they

372
00:17:47,850 --> 00:17:46,210
can identify them tell you what they can

373
00:17:49,919 --> 00:17:47,860
use what they can't when they appear all

374
00:17:53,580 --> 00:17:49,929
that sort of stuff that's just insects

375
00:17:56,419 --> 00:17:53,590
there's masses of stuff so for a mobile

376
00:18:00,539 --> 00:17:56,429
culture like our burgeoning cultures

377
00:18:03,210 --> 00:18:00,549
they use landscape places as memory

378
00:18:06,510 --> 00:18:03,220
locations it's the same method the

379
00:18:09,330 --> 00:18:06,520
method of loci that the ancient Greeks

380
00:18:11,940 --> 00:18:09,340
used to memorize massive long speeches

381
00:18:13,980 --> 00:18:11,950
and the modern memory champions all

382
00:18:16,289 --> 00:18:13,990
still use it but it didn't start with

383
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:16,299
the Greeks all indigenous cultures use

384
00:18:21,330 --> 00:18:19,210
it as well so just a simplified version

385
00:18:22,530 --> 00:18:21,340
you think of the original song lines

386
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:22,540
they're hanging laps around the

387
00:18:28,230 --> 00:18:26,080
landscape and at each landscape location

388
00:18:31,049 --> 00:18:28,240
they perform some kind of ritual song

389
00:18:32,730 --> 00:18:31,059
ceremony don't think of those rituals

390
00:18:34,289 --> 00:18:32,740
and ceremonies in terms of religion

391
00:18:37,860 --> 00:18:34,299
although they're sure to be a spiritual

392
00:18:40,020 --> 00:18:37,870
concept part of it but they also see all

393
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:40,030
their knowledge including the practical

394
00:18:43,950 --> 00:18:41,770
knowledge animal behavior plant

395
00:18:46,590 --> 00:18:43,960
properties navigation genealogies

396
00:18:49,470 --> 00:18:46,600
seasonal indicators all the stuff they

397
00:18:53,220 --> 00:18:49,480
need laws regulations in order to

398
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:53,230
survive so my thought when I stood on

399
00:18:58,830 --> 00:18:55,330
Salisbury Plain in front of some great

400
00:19:01,950 --> 00:18:58,840
big rocks was what's going to happen at

401
00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:01,960
the moment of settlement as the mobile

402
00:19:06,570 --> 00:19:04,510
cultures start to settle all their

403
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:06,580
knowledge is embedded in the landscape

404
00:19:11,549 --> 00:19:08,650
and be no longer moving around it they

405
00:19:15,330 --> 00:19:11,559
have to replicate it and the simplest

406
00:19:17,940 --> 00:19:15,340
way to do that is a circle of stones so

407
00:19:19,950 --> 00:19:17,950
that's where it all started that was

408
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:19,960
four years ago so that that's

409
00:19:23,490 --> 00:19:21,610
interesting because it's all coming back

410
00:19:25,380 --> 00:19:23,500
to me now a lot of odd what you said in

411
00:19:27,530 --> 00:19:25,390
your presentation of course you had many

412
00:19:31,710 --> 00:19:27,540
diagrams of ancient cultures in there

413
00:19:33,570 --> 00:19:31,720
what we would broadly call maybe sacred

414
00:19:36,810 --> 00:19:33,580
places but as you pointed out a lot of

415
00:19:40,019 --> 00:19:36,820
these what we consider mystical or

416
00:19:43,019 --> 00:19:40,029
sacred really had very practical

417
00:19:45,419 --> 00:19:43,029
reasons for being absolutely this

418
00:19:47,159 --> 00:19:45,429
distinction that we make in literate

419
00:19:50,190 --> 00:19:47,169
culture of cultures of religion to the

420
00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:50,200
book is that the sacred is separate from

421
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:52,960
everyday living you don't find that in

422
00:19:59,729 --> 00:19:55,090
any indigenous cultures it's all just a

423
00:20:01,799 --> 00:19:59,739
meshed all together and so to try and

424
00:20:03,749 --> 00:20:01,809
say that's a sacred place and this is

425
00:20:06,719 --> 00:20:03,759
your everyday living place it just

426
00:20:09,419 --> 00:20:06,729
doesn't work that way so so the paint

427
00:20:12,209 --> 00:20:09,429
the picture we've got cultures that have

428
00:20:14,729 --> 00:20:12,219
not yet got to the stage of having a

429
00:20:16,769 --> 00:20:14,739
written language like we can open up a

430
00:20:19,769 --> 00:20:16,779
book and read all about bushcraft or

431
00:20:21,690 --> 00:20:19,779
went to plant crops or whatever the case

432
00:20:24,499 --> 00:20:21,700
may be they need to know these things

433
00:20:27,959 --> 00:20:24,509
their very existence their very survival

434
00:20:30,659 --> 00:20:27,969
depends on the group the tribe the

435
00:20:32,609 --> 00:20:30,669
culture knowing that oh if you eat this

436
00:20:34,379 --> 00:20:32,619
you die or if you plant your crops here

437
00:20:36,450 --> 00:20:34,389
it's not going to work or this animal is

438
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:36,460
borrowing here this is a good time to

439
00:20:43,669 --> 00:20:39,039
hunt it so what you're suggesting is all

440
00:20:47,009 --> 00:20:43,679
these ancient cultures had an incredibly

441
00:20:48,950 --> 00:20:47,019
efficient way of retaining this

442
00:20:51,719 --> 00:20:48,960
knowledge without writing it down

443
00:20:54,629 --> 00:20:51,729
absolutely the couple of Corrections

444
00:20:59,909 --> 00:20:54,639
just modifications the assumption that

445
00:21:02,249 --> 00:20:59,919
they are on the way to writing is a is a

446
00:21:03,959 --> 00:21:02,259
problem because writing occurs in

447
00:21:06,749 --> 00:21:03,969
particular situations where you've got

448
00:21:08,519 --> 00:21:06,759
large populations so mobile cultures

449
00:21:10,409 --> 00:21:08,529
such as our Australian Aboriginal the

450
00:21:12,899 --> 00:21:10,419
Pueblo culture that we live in America

451
00:21:15,599 --> 00:21:12,909
are not on their way to something yeah

452
00:21:18,570 --> 00:21:15,609
they are totally sustainable culture as

453
00:21:21,209 --> 00:21:18,580
a yeah and so modern thinking is not

454
00:21:25,409 --> 00:21:21,219
that hunter-gatherers are just a

455
00:21:28,829 --> 00:21:25,419
primitive version but I complete the

456
00:21:32,209 --> 00:21:28,839
sustainable lifestyle in that third give

457
00:21:36,029 --> 00:21:32,219
you a good example of the way ritual and

458
00:21:39,029 --> 00:21:36,039
pragmatism match if you read for pueblo

459
00:21:41,669 --> 00:21:39,039
encore may a totally dependent corn to

460
00:21:44,310 --> 00:21:41,679
live Pueblo a a number of American

461
00:21:46,109 --> 00:21:44,320
Indian cultures and American Indian is

462
00:21:47,969 --> 00:21:46,119
what they prefer not Native American

463
00:21:49,289 --> 00:21:47,979
believe it on earth American Indian

464
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:49,299
cultures living in the American

465
00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:52,690
Southwest New Mexico Colorado and that

466
00:21:55,590 --> 00:21:53,440
area

467
00:21:58,320 --> 00:21:55,600
is very dry if they don't get their corn

468
00:22:01,110 --> 00:21:58,330
crop one yet they are all dead they

469
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:01,120
maintain seven different varieties 17

470
00:22:04,830 --> 00:22:03,129
sub varieties and keep them all pure

471
00:22:06,990 --> 00:22:04,840
when corn cross pollinate like you

472
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:07,000
wouldn't believe and they do that to

473
00:22:12,629 --> 00:22:09,370
make sure that no matter what happens

474
00:22:14,669 --> 00:22:12,639
they get some food because one you won

475
00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:14,679
the weather might kill off one thought

476
00:22:19,710 --> 00:22:18,159
but another sorta let go now if you look

477
00:22:20,999 --> 00:22:19,720
at it as a scientist they're doing this

478
00:22:22,740 --> 00:22:21,009
brilliantly by the way they time their

479
00:22:24,869 --> 00:22:22,750
planting and rules and regulations about

480
00:22:26,909 --> 00:22:24,879
her complaint what where if you look at

481
00:22:28,590 --> 00:22:26,919
it from the pueblos concept it all comes

482
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:28,600
through the rituals associated with the

483
00:22:32,909 --> 00:22:30,610
corn mothers and the corn maidens and

484
00:22:36,419 --> 00:22:32,919
the cord main maidens representing the

485
00:22:38,610 --> 00:22:36,429
different types of corn so you've got a

486
00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:38,620
different way of representing of knowing

487
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:41,710
and of understanding what is essentially

488
00:22:47,340 --> 00:22:45,610
a pragmatic process but to assume the

489
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:47,350
pueblos don't understand its pragmatic

490
00:22:54,389 --> 00:22:49,690
is what we've always done from our

491
00:22:56,639 --> 00:22:54,399
superior position because we've new age

492
00:22:58,769 --> 00:22:56,649
in particular has misappropriated these

493
00:23:00,869 --> 00:22:58,779
cultures and looked at the mall wage in

494
00:23:02,850 --> 00:23:00,879
this spiritual fluffy rate yeah they're

495
00:23:06,330 --> 00:23:02,860
not I know exactly what they're doing

496
00:23:08,519 --> 00:23:06,340
this this idea that cultures such as the

497
00:23:12,690 --> 00:23:08,529
Australian Aboriginal before the

498
00:23:14,460 --> 00:23:12,700
European settlement had this mystical

499
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:14,470
link to the land which is fair enough

500
00:23:17,759 --> 00:23:16,090
you know in some respects you can

501
00:23:19,740 --> 00:23:17,769
certainly say there there's something to

502
00:23:24,389 --> 00:23:19,750
that in depending on how you look at it

503
00:23:26,340 --> 00:23:24,399
but but to think that they gain detailed

504
00:23:28,799 --> 00:23:26,350
knowledge simply because they were in

505
00:23:31,289 --> 00:23:28,809
their environment and the land so spoke

506
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:31,299
to them isn't is I guess what you're

507
00:23:36,629 --> 00:23:34,090
saying is the big myth yeah and it's

508
00:23:38,759 --> 00:23:36,639
deeply offensive no doubt they're

509
00:23:41,930 --> 00:23:38,769
feeling for the land is very very strong

510
00:23:46,590 --> 00:23:41,940
you know no not at that in the world and

511
00:23:49,999 --> 00:23:46,600
that they learn they study and there's a

512
00:23:52,850 --> 00:23:50,009
lot of offense given this concept that

513
00:23:54,779 --> 00:23:52,860
Western cultures go to school and study

514
00:23:56,430 --> 00:23:54,789
indigenous cultures learn what they

515
00:23:58,379 --> 00:23:56,440
learned just by being in the land and

516
00:24:01,110 --> 00:23:58,389
that's all they have levels of

517
00:24:02,879 --> 00:24:01,120
initiation borogroves all sorts all

518
00:24:04,740 --> 00:24:02,889
those songs that are repeated and

519
00:24:06,749 --> 00:24:04,750
repeated through initiation or the

520
00:24:07,230 --> 00:24:06,759
secret businesses on and there's a good

521
00:24:09,930 --> 00:24:07,240
reason

522
00:24:12,169 --> 00:24:09,940
for that are all part of learning and a

523
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:12,179
lot of these things take 10 to 20 years

524
00:24:19,950 --> 00:24:16,480
to learn and study and to get to elder

525
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:19,960
status and power in these cultures is

526
00:24:25,830 --> 00:24:23,170
control of knowledge not wealth not

527
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:25,840
violence that's not saying there isn't

528
00:24:29,820 --> 00:24:27,610
fun that probably is an individual's

529
00:24:33,180 --> 00:24:29,830
there is fun but it's not used for power

530
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:33,190
and control yeah so that's what I'm

531
00:24:37,169 --> 00:24:35,200
looking for in the archaeological sites

532
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:37,179
and one thing I'm looking for is a

533
00:24:40,850 --> 00:24:38,530
culture where there is no sign of

534
00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:40,860
individual wealth no burials with

535
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:44,110
massive grave goods and no warrior class

536
00:24:49,860 --> 00:24:47,050
no sign of coercion to get people to

537
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:49,870
build things like Stonehenge and there's

538
00:24:54,060 --> 00:24:51,490
sites right around the world the build

539
00:24:56,970 --> 00:24:54,070
I've done three in the thesis but also

540
00:25:00,299 --> 00:24:56,980
Easter Island sits a mound builders in

541
00:25:03,030 --> 00:25:00,309
the American South East and the Nazca

542
00:25:06,140 --> 00:25:03,040
lines they all fit this pattern where

543
00:25:10,860 --> 00:25:06,150
monuments have been made massive effort

544
00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:10,870
that are walked or moved through in a

545
00:25:15,090 --> 00:25:12,880
specific sequence because any knowledge

546
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:15,100
system that isn't indexed information is

547
00:25:20,010 --> 00:25:17,650
lost yeah have some relationships the

548
00:25:21,660 --> 00:25:20,020
landscape and then there's other

549
00:25:23,910 --> 00:25:21,670
properties too including portable

550
00:25:27,030 --> 00:25:23,920
devices because all these cultures also

551
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:27,040
use portable devices and they use public

552
00:25:31,710 --> 00:25:30,130
and restricted performance sites so I am

553
00:25:34,140 --> 00:25:31,720
always looking for the both being

554
00:25:36,180 --> 00:25:34,150
present and Oh saying secret business is

555
00:25:39,210 --> 00:25:36,190
important for the really hardcore

556
00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:39,220
survival stuff you don't want the

557
00:25:45,299 --> 00:25:42,370
Chinese whispers effect so it's kept

558
00:25:47,130 --> 00:25:45,309
highly restricted and very strictly kept

559
00:25:49,350 --> 00:25:47,140
word for word whereas at the public

560
00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:49,360
level a lot of the religion the history

561
00:25:54,390 --> 00:25:51,370
and the stuff that we are told from

562
00:25:56,580 --> 00:25:54,400
outside the culture can be manipulated

563
00:25:58,590 --> 00:25:56,590
and it's not going to make a lot of

564
00:26:00,480 --> 00:25:58,600
difference to survival you do not want

565
00:26:02,580 --> 00:26:00,490
to get how you prepare set bushes in

566
00:26:06,660 --> 00:26:02,590
order to stop them being poisonous you

567
00:26:08,549 --> 00:26:06,670
do not want to get that wrong absolutely

568
00:26:11,010 --> 00:26:08,559
absolutely it's vital that this

569
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:11,020
knowledge is retained and passed on and

570
00:26:15,330 --> 00:26:13,090
we get back to the original idea here

571
00:26:17,340 --> 00:26:15,340
without writing it down in a book saying

572
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:17,350
by the way don't eat these berries they

573
00:26:21,060 --> 00:26:18,970
have to tell their children their

574
00:26:22,740 --> 00:26:21,070
culture this important information

575
00:26:24,990 --> 00:26:22,750
now when it comes to somewhere like

576
00:26:27,389 --> 00:26:25,000
Stonehenge of course and you had some

577
00:26:29,549 --> 00:26:27,399
very interesting diagrams to explain

578
00:26:33,210 --> 00:26:29,559
your point we had a situation where we

579
00:26:36,389 --> 00:26:33,220
had the outer ring of Stonehenge in in

580
00:26:38,970 --> 00:26:36,399
the way you were putting it was more

581
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:38,980
important when it was built in the way

582
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:42,130
it was used in order to aid the memory

583
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:44,080
and tell the stories and impart the

584
00:26:48,570 --> 00:26:46,450
knowledge that's right the big guys in

585
00:26:50,940 --> 00:26:48,580
the middle that everybody thinks of

586
00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:50,950
Stonehenge the massive assassins as they

587
00:26:55,610 --> 00:26:52,720
called didn't come for four to five

588
00:26:58,289 --> 00:26:55,620
hundred years into the use of the side

589
00:27:00,389 --> 00:26:58,299
since the the ditch the insight was

590
00:27:02,580 --> 00:27:00,399
probably used from way back before at

591
00:27:04,710 --> 00:27:02,590
the original diction circle it's about

592
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:04,720
100 meters across members of circle of

593
00:27:09,950 --> 00:27:07,450
56 pits in which they think they were

594
00:27:13,919 --> 00:27:09,960
stones they may have been posts and

595
00:27:16,169 --> 00:27:13,929
ditch that's 500 years before the early

596
00:27:18,810 --> 00:27:16,179
stuff came so that gave you a circle and

597
00:27:22,019 --> 00:27:18,820
the circles of stones and posts all over

598
00:27:24,149 --> 00:27:22,029
Britain northern Europe because it is

599
00:27:27,810 --> 00:27:24,159
the perfect system for doing exactly

600
00:27:29,999 --> 00:27:27,820
what I'm saying that each one represents

601
00:27:32,610 --> 00:27:30,009
a particular ritual and therefore the

602
00:27:34,350 --> 00:27:32,620
diamond is segmented it's not continuous

603
00:27:38,490 --> 00:27:34,360
and it's flat bottom they were

604
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:38,500
performing in that ditch and then when

605
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:40,570
you get the really big sites like going

606
00:27:45,749 --> 00:27:42,970
to mourn Avebury and so on the ditches

607
00:27:48,090 --> 00:27:45,759
become much much deeper and still flat

608
00:27:50,669 --> 00:27:48,100
bottoms and that put a lot of efforts

609
00:27:53,460 --> 00:27:50,679
that are not for defense so originally

610
00:27:56,730 --> 00:27:53,470
the the guys and girls trip Stonehenge

611
00:27:59,509 --> 00:27:56,740
were using those 56 posts plus a whole

612
00:28:03,029 --> 00:27:59,519
lot of other objects as memory aids

613
00:28:06,269 --> 00:28:03,039
whether to the system then as they

614
00:28:08,820 --> 00:28:06,279
became settled more you get a transition

615
00:28:10,649 --> 00:28:08,830
from the being closer to mobile

616
00:28:12,779 --> 00:28:10,659
hunter-gatherer cultures to be more like

617
00:28:15,899 --> 00:28:12,789
an agricultural culture a sedentary

618
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:15,909
article agricultural culture so for

619
00:28:22,350 --> 00:28:19,450
example like the pueblos the African

620
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:22,360
many African cultures where you have the

621
00:28:26,460 --> 00:28:24,730
Africans referred to a secret societies

622
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:26,470
in America they often referred to as

623
00:28:31,710 --> 00:28:29,200
medicine society but these highly

624
00:28:33,910 --> 00:28:31,720
secretive groups that maintain the

625
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:33,920
information that becomes much

626
00:28:39,130 --> 00:28:36,050
more restricted and much more powerful

627
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:39,140
in the hands of a few so I had a problem

628
00:28:43,660 --> 00:28:41,570
of stone age because then the outside

629
00:28:44,950 --> 00:28:43,670
was let decay and the big guys came into

630
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:44,960
the middle and it became very very

631
00:28:49,750 --> 00:28:47,570
restricted I'd lost my public

632
00:28:52,300 --> 00:28:49,760
performance site but it exactly that

633
00:28:54,670 --> 00:28:52,310
same time Darington walls was built

634
00:28:56,170 --> 00:28:54,680
which is a massive engine dis research

635
00:29:00,430 --> 00:28:56,180
have only been fully down the last 10

636
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:00,440
years 3 kilometers down the road massive

637
00:29:05,020 --> 00:29:02,530
change and fears your public site

638
00:29:07,450 --> 00:29:05,030
appearing just as Stonehenge itself

639
00:29:10,330 --> 00:29:07,460
becomes much more restricted so that

640
00:29:12,130 --> 00:29:10,340
dichotomy is always there isn't that

641
00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:12,140
interesting because many years ago I

642
00:29:17,980 --> 00:29:14,240
visited Stonehenge and I thought it was

643
00:29:20,110 --> 00:29:17,990
a fascinating place but my attention in

644
00:29:22,810 --> 00:29:20,120
my gaze was certainly directed towards

645
00:29:25,870 --> 00:29:22,820
those stones in the middle and I guess

646
00:29:27,790 --> 00:29:25,880
the outer ring was just well it was a

647
00:29:31,180 --> 00:29:27,800
bump all it was there I don't even

648
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:31,190
remember thinking much about it now I

649
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:33,440
certainly was attracted to and was

650
00:29:38,530 --> 00:29:36,650
interested in the big Center locks the

651
00:29:41,410 --> 00:29:38,540
big center stones I think they're really

652
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:41,420
stolen the show huh they have in some

653
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:43,370
way to a misdirection but they're

654
00:29:50,970 --> 00:29:47,330
incredible oh yeah absolutely but if you

655
00:29:53,620 --> 00:29:50,980
use my approach from the beginning then

656
00:29:57,730 --> 00:29:53,630
Stonehenge fits in the pattern of stone

657
00:30:00,760 --> 00:29:57,740
circles all over Britain and Ireland and

658
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:00,770
Scotland so on but my logic said if this

659
00:30:05,230 --> 00:30:02,480
is the case we have got to get stone

660
00:30:07,300 --> 00:30:05,240
circles and and timber circles other

661
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:07,310
place for the world but had no contact

662
00:30:11,770 --> 00:30:10,130
whatsoever because I'm saying that this

663
00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:11,780
is a way that people will come up with

664
00:30:16,750 --> 00:30:14,960
because it works and there are the

665
00:30:19,390 --> 00:30:16,760
Mississippian mound builders that hope

666
00:30:21,730 --> 00:30:19,400
you'd built big timber circles there's

667
00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:21,740
stone circles at got back your tepee

668
00:30:27,220 --> 00:30:24,710
which is a site in Turkey so you get the

669
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:27,230
same sort of pattern a place all over

670
00:30:31,330 --> 00:30:28,970
the world at other places where there is

671
00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:31,340
a stone or tibial farm mounds bills and

672
00:30:36,070 --> 00:30:34,880
again in in circles or sequences so

673
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:36,080
you're getting this same pattern

674
00:30:41,250 --> 00:30:38,690
everywhere and you'll then get other

675
00:30:43,870 --> 00:30:41,260
things which is portable in size

676
00:30:47,020 --> 00:30:43,880
decorated objects which are also

677
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:47,030
associated with all these sites you

678
00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:47,810
think that

679
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:50,390
a lot of these cultures and I'm sure

680
00:30:55,570 --> 00:30:53,090
they did I guess I'm really answering my

681
00:30:58,240 --> 00:30:55,580
own question it's part of the ritual

682
00:31:01,360 --> 00:30:58,250
that they walk around to a certain spot

683
00:31:03,340 --> 00:31:01,370
a certain carving on the on the tree or

684
00:31:06,660 --> 00:31:03,350
a certain area withering and then I

685
00:31:10,510 --> 00:31:06,670
would sing that part of their stories

686
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:10,520
absolutely sing dance sing song dance

687
00:31:17,890 --> 00:31:15,250
and mythology unknown as mnemonic as

688
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:17,900
memory aids there's a whole body of

689
00:31:22,780 --> 00:31:20,210
research in sociology called primary

690
00:31:25,630 --> 00:31:22,790
morality that's not morality its

691
00:31:27,250 --> 00:31:25,640
morality as distinct from literacy right

692
00:31:29,140 --> 00:31:27,260
I've never heard of this four and a half

693
00:31:30,910 --> 00:31:29,150
years ago and my supervisor when I

694
00:31:32,860 --> 00:31:30,920
started looking at all cultures and

695
00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:32,870
science said you better have a look at

696
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:35,360
this primary morality stuff so write

697
00:31:39,910 --> 00:31:37,010
down primary morality and couldn't find

698
00:31:41,860 --> 00:31:39,920
out what about it they're just massive

699
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:41,870
research in sociology that was done

700
00:31:46,780 --> 00:31:45,050
really highlighted in 1980s on the way

701
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:46,790
our culture's managed to remember so

702
00:31:53,650 --> 00:31:49,250
much stuff through song dance mythology

703
00:31:56,140 --> 00:31:53,660
rhythm line and so on and it's never

704
00:31:59,650 --> 00:31:56,150
crossed over into archaeology where

705
00:32:01,960 --> 00:31:59,660
these sites are viral cultures it's sort

706
00:32:04,420 --> 00:32:01,970
of crossed over into anthropology but

707
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:04,430
not made the leap then into archaeology

708
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:08,240
and sheer luck that I was working on the

709
00:32:13,330 --> 00:32:10,970
solution when I went and found a problem

710
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:13,340
not the other way around I did not start

711
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:16,370
out self language isn't that interesting

712
00:32:19,210 --> 00:32:17,930
and you're talking earlier about mobile

713
00:32:23,140 --> 00:32:19,220
devices which I find endlessly

714
00:32:24,700 --> 00:32:23,150
fascinating and then I keep parking back

715
00:32:27,610 --> 00:32:24,710
to my personal experiences but many

716
00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:27,620
years ago before I visited Stonehenge i

717
00:32:31,540 --> 00:32:29,600
lived in Alice Springs for a time which

718
00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:31,550
is wrong side of the country and I

719
00:32:35,610 --> 00:32:33,110
collected some things there that the

720
00:32:38,170 --> 00:32:35,620
local Aboriginal people were selling as

721
00:32:40,270 --> 00:32:38,180
souvenirs and things like that and I've

722
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:40,280
got a collection of car would little

723
00:32:44,170 --> 00:32:41,690
wood carvings and things now you're

724
00:32:45,970 --> 00:32:44,180
making the point that I guess at the

725
00:32:47,950 --> 00:32:45,980
same time you could look at these as

726
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:47,960
artistic endeavors in the art of a

727
00:32:54,810 --> 00:32:51,010
certain culture they were also used as

728
00:32:56,980 --> 00:32:54,820
memory aids absolutely some are quite

729
00:33:01,039 --> 00:32:56,990
restricted things like the aboriginal

730
00:33:04,669 --> 00:33:01,049
charanga CH you are ing a or

731
00:33:06,649 --> 00:33:04,679
stop with the tjs all been highly

732
00:33:09,919 --> 00:33:06,659
restricted and you won't see them but

733
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:09,929
many pay aboriginal paintings and so on

734
00:33:14,180 --> 00:33:11,610
and the search for oral cultures wrote

735
00:33:15,769 --> 00:33:14,190
around the world are linked to their

736
00:33:18,499 --> 00:33:15,779
mythology which is then linked to

737
00:33:19,909 --> 00:33:18,509
encoding all this information I at one

738
00:33:21,859 --> 00:33:19,919
of the skeptic meetings in Melbourne

739
00:33:23,359 --> 00:33:21,869
where i first tested out my theory and

740
00:33:26,299 --> 00:33:23,369
we must get on to the idea that i

741
00:33:28,909 --> 00:33:26,309
believe that skepticism is so as is well

742
00:33:30,919 --> 00:33:28,919
for testing out theories and I first

743
00:33:34,190 --> 00:33:30,929
presented this in Victorian skeptics

744
00:33:35,749 --> 00:33:34,200
about 18 months ago I guess in order to

745
00:33:36,950 --> 00:33:35,759
get the questions back while the

746
00:33:38,659 --> 00:33:36,960
questions that was asked from the

747
00:33:41,359 --> 00:33:38,669
audience was what percentage of

748
00:33:43,999 --> 00:33:41,369
Aboriginal art would be for mnemonic and

749
00:33:46,460 --> 00:33:44,009
what percentage purely for aesthetic and

750
00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:46,470
I said well you know I don't know look

751
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:48,720
but the world pretty woman that's

752
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:50,850
working with me was in the audience and

753
00:33:56,989 --> 00:33:54,090
she said all is mnemonic to story we

754
00:33:59,419 --> 00:33:56,999
like it if it's artistic and aesthetic

755
00:34:01,369 --> 00:33:59,429
and so on but its primary purpose is

756
00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:01,379
mnemonic to the stories and to the songs

757
00:34:05,810 --> 00:34:03,840
so when you ask Aboriginal people what

758
00:34:08,089 --> 00:34:05,820
about the dreaming they will refer to it

759
00:34:10,220 --> 00:34:08,099
as the knowledge and the law not if

760
00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:10,230
their religion there are not gods that

761
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:12,240
they worshipped they don't use those

762
00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:15,119
terms Western cultures use those terms

763
00:34:20,089 --> 00:34:17,129
because we don't have terms for what

764
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:20,099
they're saying now Lynn did I guess this

765
00:34:23,389 --> 00:34:21,450
really struck home to me when I was

766
00:34:25,099 --> 00:34:23,399
thinking about and believe me I've been

767
00:34:30,079 --> 00:34:25,109
thinking about it ever since your talk

768
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:30,089
and it struck me it struck me that this

769
00:34:34,609 --> 00:34:32,639
whole thing about to singing and to

770
00:34:38,569 --> 00:34:34,619
remember specifically and then I thought

771
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:38,579
to myself I know thousands of words in

772
00:34:44,379 --> 00:34:41,040
the correct sequence because I know the

773
00:34:47,419 --> 00:34:44,389
lyrics of songs all my life yeah I know

774
00:34:49,549 --> 00:34:47,429
thousands of words in a correct sequence

775
00:34:52,579 --> 00:34:49,559
and everybody listening if you think

776
00:34:55,250 --> 00:34:52,589
about it you also know thousands of

777
00:34:58,270 --> 00:34:55,260
words in a correct sequence that's very

778
00:35:00,890 --> 00:34:58,280
powerful stuff absolutely now this

779
00:35:03,289 --> 00:35:00,900
sequence business is really important

780
00:35:06,980 --> 00:35:03,299
because if you don't have information in

781
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:06,990
a sequence information is lost it's not

782
00:35:11,930 --> 00:35:09,210
indexed so if there's a great web page

783
00:35:13,490 --> 00:35:11,940
on the internet and it's not indexed by

784
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:13,500
Google or something and you don't know

785
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:14,160
about it you

786
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:16,770
never find it so our culture's are not

787
00:35:22,579 --> 00:35:20,010
stagnant stuff that is important stays

788
00:35:25,309 --> 00:35:22,589
in the sequence is repeated constantly a

789
00:35:27,890 --> 00:35:25,319
stuff that loses importance disappears

790
00:35:31,700 --> 00:35:27,900
out so it's constantly being updated and

791
00:35:33,589 --> 00:35:31,710
maintained but it's indexed in after an

792
00:35:36,170 --> 00:35:33,599
Aboriginal cultures it's indexed by the

793
00:35:40,309 --> 00:35:36,180
landscape itself and what is better to

794
00:35:44,510 --> 00:35:40,319
index knowledge than something that is

795
00:35:47,260 --> 00:35:44,520
so a permanent in mobile cultures in

796
00:35:50,079 --> 00:35:47,270
sedentary cultures though either use

797
00:35:54,230 --> 00:35:50,089
buildings like the ancient Greeks did or

798
00:35:56,270 --> 00:35:54,240
they use a sequence of ceremonies which

799
00:35:58,520 --> 00:35:56,280
are associated with the seasonal cycle

800
00:36:00,079 --> 00:35:58,530
so there's always a way of sequence

801
00:36:03,109 --> 00:36:00,089
which is why I circle stones are so

802
00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:03,119
useful for what I'm saying it's

803
00:36:09,950 --> 00:36:05,730
absolutely fascinating stuff Lynn the

804
00:36:13,220 --> 00:36:09,960
whole audience was quite taken back by

805
00:36:14,500 --> 00:36:13,230
the end of your talk and and it really

806
00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:14,510
was one of the most memorable

807
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:16,710
presentations I've seen at any

808
00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:18,690
convention because it was really out of

809
00:36:23,089 --> 00:36:20,250
left field it was something I was not

810
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:23,099
familiar with but it really struck a

811
00:36:28,099 --> 00:36:24,450
chord with me and I think it's just

812
00:36:30,109 --> 00:36:28,109
breathtaking work and people have been

813
00:36:32,420 --> 00:36:30,119
asking me since they've been asking my

814
00:36:34,339 --> 00:36:32,430
opinion of it and all I can say is I'm

815
00:36:37,339 --> 00:36:34,349
very impressed but I'm certainly not

816
00:36:40,609 --> 00:36:37,349
qualified to to mark your homework as it

817
00:36:42,799 --> 00:36:40,619
were so maybe the skeptic zone audience

818
00:36:44,690 --> 00:36:42,809
can also think about this and I

819
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:44,700
certainly won't look at Stonehenge the

820
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:47,970
same way again this um this is really

821
00:36:51,890 --> 00:36:50,250
important this feedback I lived in a

822
00:36:53,900 --> 00:36:51,900
world of self-doubt for four years

823
00:36:55,430 --> 00:36:53,910
thinking this can't be at work where am

824
00:36:58,240 --> 00:36:55,440
I going wrong it was only when the

825
00:37:01,849 --> 00:36:58,250
doctorate was examined by top watching

826
00:37:04,039 --> 00:37:01,859
IPL adjust to approved it that I now

827
00:37:07,010 --> 00:37:04,049
feel confident and have gone much more

828
00:37:09,650 --> 00:37:07,020
public with it and now I need to get the

829
00:37:11,269 --> 00:37:09,660
book out to get it argued and debated

830
00:37:14,150 --> 00:37:11,279
and improved on by other people

831
00:37:16,130 --> 00:37:14,160
including your audience well then I I

832
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:16,140
wish you every success if this goes the

833
00:37:22,130 --> 00:37:19,170
way that maybe it could go I can see

834
00:37:24,010 --> 00:37:22,140
well a nice TV documentary coming up in

835
00:37:26,299 --> 00:37:24,020
your future who knows that would be fun

836
00:37:28,549 --> 00:37:26,309
that'll be lovely

837
00:37:30,439 --> 00:37:28,559
that would be great now folks for more

838
00:37:31,939 --> 00:37:30,449
information about Lin kellian to see

839
00:37:37,099 --> 00:37:31,949
some of the wonderful book she's written

840
00:37:41,630 --> 00:37:37,109
over the years visit www Lin Kelly ly NM

841
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:41,640
ke LLY com au Lynn you've written books

842
00:37:46,910 --> 00:37:44,160
on spiders crocodiles the skeptics guide

843
00:37:49,819 --> 00:37:46,920
to the paranormal a novel called

844
00:37:52,329 --> 00:37:49,829
avenging Janey all sorts of things my

845
00:37:56,140 --> 00:37:52,339
goodness me when do you ever stop I

846
00:37:58,729 --> 00:37:56,150
don't pin to ever stop why would you

847
00:38:01,729 --> 00:37:58,739
think you might believe all along

848
00:38:04,699 --> 00:38:01,739
reality is awesome I don't want to stop

849
00:38:06,620 --> 00:38:04,709
and I hope you never do Lynn Kelly thank

850
00:38:08,900 --> 00:38:06,630
you for spending time with us and now

851
00:38:12,380 --> 00:38:08,910
it's over to our audience to think very

852
00:38:27,150 --> 00:38:12,390
deeply about what you put forward thank

853
00:38:33,729 --> 00:38:30,099
ning sent a shot industry skeptic zone

854
00:38:38,289 --> 00:38:33,739
watch elisa o'meara one gesture Sceptile

855
00:38:41,380 --> 00:38:38,299
talk on da CA n sceptile shaker koziol a

856
00:38:44,199 --> 00:38:41,390
podcast GMO a momentito with hardened

857
00:38:47,739 --> 00:38:44,209
sinner hearty pocket and Helios in the

858
00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:47,749
atlantic ocean in morin Rajesh attention

859
00:38:54,939 --> 00:38:51,529
chatty Lana cncl link Li Dao itunes the

860
00:38:56,999 --> 00:38:54,949
Chihuahua Jan sad sigh escaped toy [\h__\h]

861
00:39:00,800 --> 00:38:57,009
chiffon well one of the luncheon

862
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:04,070
thus kept I'd science podcast by brian

863
00:39:08,930 --> 00:39:06,450
dunning is now available for Chinese

864
00:39:11,900 --> 00:39:08,940
audience please tell your Chinese

865
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:11,910
friends to visit skip toy duck hunters

866
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:14,850
en a fine skip toyed and the Chinese

867
00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:18,960
itunes door i'm lisa from skeptic on the

868
00:39:47,569 --> 00:39:35,280
CN here's my not spooky action at the

869
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:49,099
well here we are not too far from the

870
00:39:51,829 --> 00:39:50,400
barrio known for me too far for the

871
00:39:55,519 --> 00:39:51,839
bottom in a few skip the tube we got

872
00:39:56,839 --> 00:39:55,529
here Lara Daniel and Scotty right now

873
00:39:59,390 --> 00:39:56,849
the whole thing's only just started

874
00:40:01,279 --> 00:39:59,400
there's a big weekend of controversy arm

875
00:40:02,449 --> 00:40:01,289
wrestling toeholds ahead of us what are

876
00:40:04,309 --> 00:40:02,459
you expecting of this weekend's

877
00:40:06,109 --> 00:40:04,319
conference I'm just looking forward to

878
00:40:07,459 --> 00:40:06,119
meeting some people i'm quite new to all

879
00:40:08,839 --> 00:40:07,469
of this i'm just looking forward to

880
00:40:12,109 --> 00:40:08,849
meeting some people that think the same

881
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:12,119
way like minded people now what is your

882
00:40:17,089 --> 00:40:14,130
angle on these skepticism and what I

883
00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:17,099
teach physics but the actual putting a

884
00:40:21,380 --> 00:40:19,440
name to it a skepticism is very very new

885
00:40:23,900 --> 00:40:21,390
to me heard about it all podcasts as a

886
00:40:25,459 --> 00:40:23,910
lot of people but I'm a fan of the

887
00:40:27,469 --> 00:40:25,469
hologram theory how do you think that

888
00:40:29,930 --> 00:40:27,479
goes as a runner for a explanation of

889
00:40:31,699 --> 00:40:29,940
the universe fought sorry hologram

890
00:40:32,959 --> 00:40:31,709
theory that's where we're at the

891
00:40:34,309 --> 00:40:32,969
universe is actually in some kind of

892
00:40:36,529 --> 00:40:34,319
black hole where everything on the

893
00:40:38,420 --> 00:40:36,539
external of the universe is a 2d version

894
00:40:40,370 --> 00:40:38,430
of the 3d that we're living as a

895
00:40:43,099 --> 00:40:40,380
hologram which is projected in some way

896
00:40:45,109 --> 00:40:43,109
sounds great i have no idea i haven't

897
00:40:46,519 --> 00:40:45,119
heard about that before sorry no it

898
00:40:48,319 --> 00:40:46,529
could have just been some crystal meth i

899
00:40:49,729 --> 00:40:48,329
had earlier so excuse me about that I

900
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:49,739
gotta say but could you remind me never

901
00:40:54,799 --> 00:40:50,880
to take drugs with her talking to a

902
00:40:56,269 --> 00:40:54,809
physicist again yeah sure no that I see

903
00:40:58,640 --> 00:40:56,279
that often may know but I'm pretty sure

904
00:41:00,019 --> 00:40:58,650
drugs are bad in general okay you know

905
00:41:02,660 --> 00:41:00,029
we're after talking to james randi last

906
00:41:04,939 --> 00:41:02,670
night and he's a te con on reality it

907
00:41:06,140 --> 00:41:04,949
was quite interesting so yeah and what

908
00:41:09,769 --> 00:41:06,150
do you make of the great James oh

909
00:41:10,999 --> 00:41:09,779
absolutely brilliant man he actually did

910
00:41:12,650 --> 00:41:11,009
some magic right before our very eyes

911
00:41:15,380 --> 00:41:12,660
last night at the fundraising dinner so

912
00:41:18,890 --> 00:41:15,390
we were very very much likely to be

913
00:41:21,380 --> 00:41:18,900
treated to a bent spoon and a fifty

914
00:41:23,690 --> 00:41:21,390
dollar note that disappeared mmm

915
00:41:27,650 --> 00:41:23,700
might disappear behind the bar yeah I'm

916
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:27,660
not doing well yeah well yeah what do

917
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:28,770
you make it the crowd here how would you

918
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:30,210
describe the crowd here with a

919
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:33,570
particular type very very eclectic know

920
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:35,250
every single type see in all different

921
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:38,010
ages lots of different yeah every single

922
00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:40,050
type of person and what do you make of

923
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:41,250
the crowd here I mean you've been with

924
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:42,690
the skeptics before is there any

925
00:41:47,690 --> 00:41:45,450
unfamiliar faces here today a lot of

926
00:41:49,580 --> 00:41:47,700
unfamiliar faces but they're all a bunch

927
00:41:51,380 --> 00:41:49,590
of freaks and geeks just like me so I'm

928
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:51,390
right at home but i'm hoping that Erich

929
00:41:54,770 --> 00:41:52,650
von Daniken will make an appearance at

930
00:41:57,410 --> 00:41:54,780
some stage we can only hope very good

931
00:42:03,980 --> 00:41:57,420
that would be very exciting is that with

932
00:42:06,590 --> 00:42:03,990
dancing girls never worked when he

933
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:06,600
managed bring a bacon and donuts party

934
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:08,910
t-shirt I was there you know it's kind

935
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:11,010
of you gotta love the spirit oh look at

936
00:42:15,050 --> 00:42:13,050
the moment I've not seen pens been

937
00:42:16,700 --> 00:42:15,060
performed before and I have not been to

938
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:16,710
a party where they had bacon and own up

939
00:42:21,380 --> 00:42:19,170
so you had sugar and nitrates it was

940
00:42:23,060 --> 00:42:21,390
fantastic it was also it was absolutely

941
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:23,070
totally awesome was great fantastic what

942
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:24,570
are you hoping from this weekend's

943
00:42:28,910 --> 00:42:27,330
festivities well I just I think that the

944
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:28,920
the skeptical munion Australia's

945
00:42:33,350 --> 00:42:30,570
increase is growing I'm hoping it's

946
00:42:35,510 --> 00:42:33,360
going and I you know I'm sort of warm to

947
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:35,520
see a lot of people here and what I'm

948
00:42:40,250 --> 00:42:38,400
hoping to get is just a lot more of you

949
00:42:41,630 --> 00:42:40,260
know good skeptical thinking but I seem

950
00:42:42,620 --> 00:42:41,640
to be getting from people at the moment

951
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:42,630
is like hanging with some like-minded

952
00:42:46,850 --> 00:42:45,090
people for a bit of a change yeah and I

953
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:46,860
think I think that certainly resonates

954
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:48,810
with me it's it's good to to hang out

955
00:42:53,090 --> 00:42:50,490
with you know the clam that things like

956
00:42:54,620 --> 00:42:53,100
you do all in most sensors yeah they

957
00:42:56,570 --> 00:42:54,630
kind of did anyone speak you looking

958
00:42:58,190 --> 00:42:56,580
forward to the most rebecca watson is

959
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:58,200
probably the person I'm most looking

960
00:43:04,940 --> 00:43:00,240
forward to I mean I've seen a James

961
00:43:09,350 --> 00:43:04,950
Randi you know a few times but I haven't

962
00:43:11,180 --> 00:43:09,360
seen Rebecca speak by herself before and

963
00:43:12,530 --> 00:43:11,190
I'm looking forward to that and there's

964
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:12,540
you know ken harvey there's a lot of

965
00:43:15,110 --> 00:43:13,530
other speakers that I'm really looking

966
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:15,120
forward to you have a good time thanks

967
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:16,290
for trying to us here I'm sure you'll

968
00:43:19,310 --> 00:43:17,850
have a much better time this is just the

969
00:43:21,410 --> 00:43:19,320
start talking to me it gets better from

970
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:21,420
here fantastic well you him you enjoy

971
00:43:28,310 --> 00:43:26,970
some here i have found these skeptic

972
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:28,320
zone listening here what's your name sir

973
00:43:33,470 --> 00:43:31,770
john john a biblical name that's

974
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:33,480
obviously just some made-up horn thing

975
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:35,520
you're just telling me no it's not i

976
00:43:40,370 --> 00:43:37,530
actually discussed this with another

977
00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:40,380
John about five minutes ago okay well I

978
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:41,250
think you're going to get a bit of that

979
00:43:46,220 --> 00:43:44,730
this weekend sir now I know what turned

980
00:43:47,810 --> 00:43:46,230
you under the skeptic zone why in the

981
00:43:50,030 --> 00:43:47,820
world would you turn to a skeptic

982
00:43:51,980 --> 00:43:50,040
podcast I'm I'm skeptical of your

983
00:43:54,410 --> 00:43:51,990
interest sure well I heard rich and

984
00:43:56,570 --> 00:43:54,420
Saunders on the skipping scarred of the

985
00:43:58,400 --> 00:43:56,580
universe and I thought well if they're

986
00:44:00,550 --> 00:43:58,410
going to have him on that show then I

987
00:44:02,380 --> 00:44:00,560
definitely tune in so

988
00:44:04,090 --> 00:44:02,390
and I haven't looked back and this

989
00:44:05,770 --> 00:44:04,100
weekend of course record rebecca watson

990
00:44:08,230 --> 00:44:05,780
is in attendance you're hoping to have a

991
00:44:11,140 --> 00:44:08,240
chat no I can't believe it it was

992
00:44:12,550 --> 00:44:11,150
unbelievable so I've seen her look you

993
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:12,560
have a good time here and I'm sure

994
00:44:15,730 --> 00:44:13,850
you'll enjoy the speakers this weekend

995
00:44:17,860 --> 00:44:15,740
and thank you for listening on behalf of

996
00:44:25,390 --> 00:44:17,870
dr h in Richard in the rest of true we

997
00:44:26,830 --> 00:44:25,400
thank you thank you look there's a few

998
00:44:28,750 --> 00:44:26,840
people here some new faces some old

999
00:44:30,190 --> 00:44:28,760
faces and who've we got here I name's

1000
00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:30,200
Laurie Smith from the borderline

1001
00:44:33,910 --> 00:44:32,510
skeptical group a boodle I'm seven

1002
00:44:36,550 --> 00:44:33,920
you're borderline skeptical you're

1003
00:44:39,070 --> 00:44:36,560
borderline dangerous born along with a

1004
00:44:41,590 --> 00:44:39,080
lot of things Homer well and who we got

1005
00:44:42,730 --> 00:44:41,600
here I'm eating sweets on this one okay

1006
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:42,740
now what are you guys looking forward to

1007
00:44:46,270 --> 00:44:44,690
this weekend ah we're looking forward

1008
00:44:48,010 --> 00:44:46,280
most to meeting you Mona that's why

1009
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:48,020
we're here well now the disappointments

1010
00:44:51,190 --> 00:44:48,890
over with you can get on with your

1011
00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:51,200
weekend sir oh well we got a whole

1012
00:44:53,860 --> 00:44:52,640
weekend to catch up my know you got a

1013
00:44:56,110 --> 00:44:53,870
favourite speaker you're looking forward

1014
00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:56,120
to it yeah Brandi well I gave you seen

1015
00:44:59,680 --> 00:44:58,640
him before I was going to say he's

1016
00:45:01,900 --> 00:44:59,690
pretty amazing but everyone says that

1017
00:45:03,259 --> 00:45:01,910
but yeah if the 84 to be going like that

1018
00:45:06,820 --> 00:45:03,269
and how

1019
00:45:08,980 --> 00:45:06,830
I like it yes that's right yes

1020
00:45:10,690 --> 00:45:08,990
look I have a good weekend and try not

1021
00:45:12,190 --> 00:45:10,700
to start any fights okay a new

1022
00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:12,200
borderline people can be a bit like that

1023
00:45:17,290 --> 00:45:14,720
we do get a bit radical attached have a

1024
00:45:17,300 --> 00:45:23,300
raymond toasted Jesus

1025
00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:25,010
here we are in the middle of the

1026
00:45:28,730 --> 00:45:26,910
immigration museum the launch is going

1027
00:45:30,260 --> 00:45:28,740
off spinning Leon speaking to the man

1028
00:45:32,390 --> 00:45:30,270
has been to a couple of launches a few

1029
00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:32,400
drinkies in his time and as the outreach

1030
00:45:36,410 --> 00:45:34,560
person for the J ref Brian how is this

1031
00:45:38,780 --> 00:45:36,420
as a meet-and-greet in your opinion

1032
00:45:40,550 --> 00:45:38,790
pretty good the food is good the drink

1033
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:40,560
is good there's a giant boat in the

1034
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:42,450
middle of the room that people are

1035
00:45:45,590 --> 00:45:44,250
walking have you noticed this no

1036
00:45:47,870 --> 00:45:45,600
actually being too busy talking to you

1037
00:45:49,550 --> 00:45:47,880
but because there's an arc in the middle

1038
00:45:50,990 --> 00:45:49,560
of the room that is correct when so if

1039
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:51,000
people get a little bit too drunk

1040
00:45:56,090 --> 00:45:53,850
there's a sort of an old-timey soiled

1041
00:45:58,250 --> 00:45:56,100
cut either people can rest upon what

1042
00:46:00,410 --> 00:45:58,260
looks like a barrel of rum yes it's a

1043
00:46:01,730 --> 00:46:00,420
barrel of rum and I can see the bunks

1044
00:46:03,290 --> 00:46:01,740
where dr. rate she's going to be

1045
00:46:04,730 --> 00:46:03,300
sleeping tonight just next to the barrel

1046
00:46:06,530 --> 00:46:04,740
of rum look I wasn't going to say that

1047
00:46:08,240 --> 00:46:06,540
but we all know it's true we know it's

1048
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:08,250
true and when you are throwing these

1049
00:46:12,350 --> 00:46:10,530
kind of shindig and most skeptics

1050
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:12,360
probably haven't had to do some

1051
00:46:15,590 --> 00:46:14,010
entertaining on this level one of the

1052
00:46:17,530 --> 00:46:15,600
main features that people need to have

1053
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:17,540
when you're doing a meet-and-greet I

1054
00:46:23,180 --> 00:46:20,250
think that it's important to have plenty

1055
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:23,190
of alcohol because a lot of people are

1056
00:46:26,660 --> 00:46:25,050
kind of socially awkward and you need

1057
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:26,670
that sort of social lubricant to get

1058
00:46:30,290 --> 00:46:28,410
people talking to each other it's

1059
00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:30,300
important to have name tags we've got

1060
00:46:34,100 --> 00:46:32,400
beautiful name tags here so there's a

1061
00:46:35,660 --> 00:46:34,110
little bit of controversy help the thing

1062
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:35,670
along like if someone gets a little bit

1063
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:38,730
too drunk later or if there's a revered

1064
00:46:41,750 --> 00:46:40,050
figure turns up and does something

1065
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:41,760
strange the Cenacle a little bit all

1066
00:46:46,130 --> 00:46:43,200
that go against it oh it absolutely

1067
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:46,140
helps it just adds to the rumor mill and

1068
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:47,370
gets people something to talk about the

1069
00:46:50,810 --> 00:46:49,170
next day yeah look I personally I'm

1070
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:50,820
hoping for an appearance by erich von

1071
00:46:56,330 --> 00:46:54,240
daniken here tonight oh if god willing

1072
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:56,340
if he's up there we will have an

1073
00:46:59,390 --> 00:46:57,930
appearance by Erich von Daniken and he

1074
00:47:01,640 --> 00:46:59,400
can tell us how the aliens built this

1075
00:47:02,870 --> 00:47:01,650
building are there any local crackpots

1076
00:47:04,070 --> 00:47:02,880
that you've got into all you've been in

1077
00:47:06,380 --> 00:47:04,080
Australia have you had time to

1078
00:47:08,450 --> 00:47:06,390
investigate the scene I have not so I

1079
00:47:10,250 --> 00:47:08,460
there anybody anybody I should check out

1080
00:47:11,900 --> 00:47:10,260
well look there's a guy who gets around

1081
00:47:12,420 --> 00:47:11,910
Melbourne here called UFO Brian who I

1082
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:12,430
haven't heard

1083
00:47:16,230 --> 00:47:14,410
before which interestingly enough

1084
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:16,240
where's a tin foil hat and he can read

1085
00:47:19,860 --> 00:47:18,370
books without opening them wow that's

1086
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:19,870
very convenient I mean it saves a lot of

1087
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:21,610
times yeah and you don't even have to

1088
00:47:24,390 --> 00:47:22,930
take the books out of the library you

1089
00:47:26,460 --> 00:47:24,400
just walk through the library and you

1090
00:47:28,290 --> 00:47:26,470
know everything wow I got to meet this

1091
00:47:30,450 --> 00:47:28,300
guy yeah we're hoping to meet him in

1092
00:47:32,010 --> 00:47:30,460
fact I was wondering when I was at jam

1093
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:32,020
in Las Vegas I expected someone with a

1094
00:47:35,130 --> 00:47:33,760
sandwich board to turn up we'll have

1095
00:47:36,630 --> 00:47:35,140
someone who had a bit of a rebuttal to

1096
00:47:38,700 --> 00:47:36,640
the skeptics and that didn't happen I'm

1097
00:47:40,980 --> 00:47:38,710
one that all your events are someone

1098
00:47:42,750 --> 00:47:40,990
turned up to give a counterpoint yes

1099
00:47:46,410 --> 00:47:42,760
actually there was somebody that turned

1100
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:46,420
up at Tim this year I think also the

1101
00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:48,370
year before they're usually asked to

1102
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:51,730
leave very quickly but we're in sort of

1103
00:47:55,770 --> 00:47:53,530
an open area and so people can sort of

1104
00:47:57,390 --> 00:47:55,780
show up and wander around before anybody

1105
00:47:59,980 --> 00:47:57,400
notices that they're not actually part

1106
00:48:01,660 --> 00:47:59,990
of the convention so

1107
00:48:05,140 --> 00:48:01,670
I think this year there was somebody

1108
00:48:06,700 --> 00:48:05,150
handing out Bibles I think I could be

1109
00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:06,710
mistaken but I think it was at and the

1110
00:48:12,010 --> 00:48:08,800
year before there was somebody who was a

1111
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:12,020
climate change denial lyst it was going

1112
00:48:15,550 --> 00:48:13,970
around basically just trying to engage

1113
00:48:17,290 --> 00:48:15,560
in conversation with everybody he could

1114
00:48:19,270 --> 00:48:17,300
find about how global warming is a hoax

1115
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:19,280
so if we're skeptical about everything

1116
00:48:23,260 --> 00:48:20,930
else why are we skeptical about climate

1117
00:48:25,540 --> 00:48:23,270
change but everyone knows that the issue

1118
00:48:27,460 --> 00:48:25,550
was decided a long time ago he should be

1119
00:48:29,859 --> 00:48:27,470
discussing who was the best Batman now

1120
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:29,869
I'm an Ivan Adam West supporter some

1121
00:48:33,940 --> 00:48:32,090
people like Christian Bale oh no

1122
00:48:36,580 --> 00:48:33,950
absolutely Adam West Christian Bale is

1123
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:36,590
so serious he's so dour and see the

1124
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:38,450
thing about Batman is that at the end of

1125
00:48:44,109 --> 00:48:40,880
the day it's a grown man dressed as a

1126
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:44,119
bat punching a clown so how serious can

1127
00:48:47,890 --> 00:48:46,130
you take this what's a Christian Bale

1128
00:48:49,660 --> 00:48:47,900
could have been an american psycho and

1129
00:48:51,850 --> 00:48:49,670
Batman but could Adam West have actually

1130
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:51,860
started in American Psycho I would love

1131
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:53,810
to see that I think having heard these

1132
00:48:59,020 --> 00:48:55,970
voices mayor adam wished you could he

1133
00:49:00,160 --> 00:48:59,030
has that side to him absolutely it I bet

1134
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:00,170
there's this theory that there's a

1135
00:49:03,100 --> 00:49:01,850
multiverse and so everything that could

1136
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:03,110
possibly have happened has happened

1137
00:49:07,660 --> 00:49:05,450
somewhere I'm going to find the reality

1138
00:49:09,860 --> 00:49:07,670
where Adam West started american psycho

1139
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:09,870
and i'm going to live there

1140
00:49:13,250 --> 00:49:11,850
look see if you can get a share flat

1141
00:49:14,810 --> 00:49:13,260
I'll come there to the couscous god

1142
00:49:17,450 --> 00:49:14,820
knows what else wacky stuff's going on

1143
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:17,460
that place absolutely I'm going to find

1144
00:49:24,700 --> 00:49:19,200
that right now actually it's got to be

1145
00:49:31,580 --> 00:49:28,190
now who we got here right now enjoying

1146
00:49:34,580 --> 00:49:31,590
the hospitality Steve Walker now Steve I

1147
00:49:37,220 --> 00:49:34,590
believe you're a magician I believe it

1148
00:49:40,340 --> 00:49:37,230
to ya now why are there so many

1149
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:40,350
magicians in the skeptical movement well

1150
00:49:47,330 --> 00:49:43,680
originally we were picked because we had

1151
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:47,340
to set the protocol for testing psychics

1152
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:49,890
and they figured that if anybody was

1153
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:51,930
good for the prize it was fake a

1154
00:49:59,330 --> 00:49:55,850
magician would spotted easier than a

1155
00:50:02,030 --> 00:49:59,340
layperson at once we know they without

1156
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:02,040
going too far into it we can see when

1157
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:03,570
they're going to attempt something that

1158
00:50:08,750 --> 00:50:06,330
we know is a basic technique you know

1159
00:50:10,820 --> 00:50:08,760
now when we normally see psychics being

1160
00:50:13,250 --> 00:50:10,830
tested they use a set of card that's got

1161
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:13,260
the triangle and the moon that now what

1162
00:50:16,970 --> 00:50:15,090
does that set of cards called again well

1163
00:50:21,110 --> 00:50:16,980
some people call the Zener cards are

1164
00:50:23,270 --> 00:50:21,120
invented by dr. Rhine are they actually

1165
00:50:24,710 --> 00:50:23,280
good to use I've heard offered Penn and

1166
00:50:26,450 --> 00:50:24,720
Teller criticize them because they say

1167
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:26,460
the sets too small so the chance of

1168
00:50:31,130 --> 00:50:28,770
randomness is have been higher it's one

1169
00:50:34,820 --> 00:50:31,140
in five would I mean there's been

1170
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:34,830
various decks brought out sins so you

1171
00:50:41,990 --> 00:50:38,130
can have as many as you like really I'm

1172
00:50:43,370 --> 00:50:42,000
but they are distinct symbols and what's

1173
00:50:45,980 --> 00:50:43,380
the kind of whoo that annoys you the

1174
00:50:47,690 --> 00:50:45,990
most as someone who has participated in

1175
00:50:49,730 --> 00:50:47,700
trickery for people when you see people

1176
00:50:51,650 --> 00:50:49,740
trying to beat Rick what gets you mad no

1177
00:50:54,140 --> 00:50:51,660
the only the only ones that upset me are

1178
00:50:57,170 --> 00:50:54,150
the ones that pretend to contact the

1179
00:50:59,120 --> 00:50:57,180
dead if they're playing on people's you

1180
00:51:02,320 --> 00:50:59,130
know the pickin um of the worst time

1181
00:51:08,140 --> 00:51:05,220
those facing the defenses are down so

1182
00:51:12,130 --> 00:51:08,150
probably believe anything at that stage

1183
00:51:13,660 --> 00:51:12,140
you have you had a large reading like as

1184
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:13,670
John Edwards been here lately or someone

1185
00:51:17,230 --> 00:51:15,290
like that to a large venue are they

1186
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:17,240
still happening here in Victoria I can't

1187
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:19,490
remember the last time John Edwards was

1188
00:51:26,050 --> 00:51:23,090
here but I remember about two years ago

1189
00:51:29,140 --> 00:51:26,060
he was here and I live in Sydney but the

1190
00:51:30,820 --> 00:51:29,150
girl next door who was a teenager flew

1191
00:51:33,430 --> 00:51:30,830
all the way to burp just to watch him

1192
00:51:36,130 --> 00:51:33,440
spend a fortune and because she just

1193
00:51:39,340 --> 00:51:36,140
recently lost someone no no she just

1194
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:39,350
believed he could fetch her out and be a

1195
00:51:43,230 --> 00:51:41,650
successful I don't know what

1196
00:51:44,670 --> 00:51:43,240
and who you looking forward to seeing

1197
00:51:47,940 --> 00:51:44,680
the most this weekend on the speaker's

1198
00:51:49,829 --> 00:51:47,950
podium rebecca watson I've listened to a

1199
00:51:53,009 --> 00:51:49,839
podcast on

1200
00:51:55,229 --> 00:51:53,019
on radio and feel like I know I've never

1201
00:51:56,670 --> 00:51:55,239
met her but you tend to get that with

1202
00:51:58,319 --> 00:51:56,680
the media people you think you know

1203
00:51:59,459 --> 00:51:58,329
because the earbuds go straight in New

1204
00:52:01,620 --> 00:51:59,469
Year it's a very personal connection

1205
00:52:03,839 --> 00:52:01,630
what I like about who hits her

1206
00:52:05,219 --> 00:52:03,849
feistiness I love her feistiness about

1207
00:52:06,599 --> 00:52:05,229
the skepticism and it's a different

1208
00:52:08,370 --> 00:52:06,609
style you know it's a bit a little bit

1209
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:08,380
in your face but its interface a little

1210
00:52:13,650 --> 00:52:11,170
bit different way and she seems to be on

1211
00:52:15,660 --> 00:52:13,660
that program as she does she seems to be

1212
00:52:17,940 --> 00:52:15,670
like Daniel in the lion's den de gee I

1213
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:17,950
mean they seem to be against him which

1214
00:52:27,819 --> 00:52:21,010
he gives as good as she gets you know

1215
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:29,960
you're not trying to blend into anything

1216
00:52:35,150 --> 00:52:31,650
tonight because you actually died your

1217
00:52:36,650 --> 00:52:35,160
beard a bright purple I did that because

1218
00:52:38,509 --> 00:52:36,660
I figured I didn't want to be lumped in

1219
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:38,519
with the gray old white beard ease I

1220
00:52:43,069 --> 00:52:40,890
figured even it hey even though I'm gray

1221
00:52:44,930 --> 00:52:43,079
and I'm old and gray I don't actually

1222
00:52:47,150 --> 00:52:44,940
look at at the moment because I have a

1223
00:52:49,099 --> 00:52:47,160
purple and blue beard ever say yeah he's

1224
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:49,109
old and purple or they're thinking your

1225
00:52:53,749 --> 00:52:52,319
beard is incredibly bruised they just

1226
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:53,759
said to me that I look like I've

1227
00:52:58,450 --> 00:52:56,450
swallowed American

1228
00:53:00,440 --> 00:52:58,460
and that's worth looking up folks at

1229
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:00,450
home let me tell you

1230
00:53:04,130 --> 00:53:02,250
and who you're looking forward to talk

1231
00:53:05,839 --> 00:53:04,140
hearing speak this weekend and what do

1232
00:53:07,790 --> 00:53:05,849
you make of the crowd here have you seen

1233
00:53:10,890 --> 00:53:07,800
your favorite speaker here yes I'm

1234
00:53:12,900 --> 00:53:10,900
looking forward to hear a beka speak

1235
00:53:14,430 --> 00:53:12,910
i'm looking forward to hear DJ speak

1236
00:53:17,339 --> 00:53:14,440
because his podcast hasn't been on the

1237
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:17,349
air for long is that yeah and I'm

1238
00:53:19,950 --> 00:53:18,490
looking forward to for good reason

1239
00:53:24,030 --> 00:53:19,960
because I'm a big fan I have podcasts

1240
00:53:26,250 --> 00:53:24,040
going in my head all day every day

1241
00:53:27,780 --> 00:53:26,260
now I get through about 10 hours a week

1242
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:27,790
how many hours of podcasts you get

1243
00:53:35,790 --> 00:53:31,810
through I collect probably 30 hours a

1244
00:53:37,950 --> 00:53:35,800
week and listen to 90 Wow I tend to go

1245
00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:37,960
back over and over now I probably know

1246
00:53:42,540 --> 00:53:39,730
the podcasts better than ever get good

1247
00:53:44,850 --> 00:53:42,550
huge ego young is this the skeptic zone

1248
00:53:47,730 --> 00:53:44,860
skeptic allottees kept expired or Brian

1249
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:47,740
Dunning all of those dissonance podcast

1250
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:52,090
godless [\h__\h] skeptics with a k young

1251
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:54,610
Australian skeptics George geologic i

1252
00:54:00,100 --> 00:53:57,280
could go on australian national robin

1253
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:00,110
williams is wonderful

1254
00:54:03,700 --> 00:54:02,210
yeah I did I've run out so do you

1255
00:54:05,740 --> 00:54:03,710
anybody's got this it's really killed

1256
00:54:07,210 --> 00:54:05,750
radio hasn't it I firmly it has I don't

1257
00:54:09,190 --> 00:54:07,220
listen to the radio and I really watch

1258
00:54:11,950 --> 00:54:09,200
TV anymore these people are much more

1259
00:54:13,630 --> 00:54:11,960
what I want to hear well I believe that

1260
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:13,640
they're narrowcasting to what you are

1261
00:54:19,180 --> 00:54:16,370
into some one of them said the other day

1262
00:54:22,300 --> 00:54:19,190
that if you now if your broadcast your

1263
00:54:24,250 --> 00:54:22,310
niche will find you which I think I'm

1264
00:54:26,140 --> 00:54:24,260
certainly finding all of the people who

1265
00:54:27,580 --> 00:54:26,150
I just it's certainly true but coming

1266
00:54:29,170 --> 00:54:27,590
from the media let me tell you it's very

1267
00:54:31,450 --> 00:54:29,180
hard to convince the broadcasting

1268
00:54:34,180 --> 00:54:31,460
organisation to let your broadcast and

1269
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:34,190
let that happen I mean in TV a show

1270
00:54:37,210 --> 00:54:35,690
could be on for like a few weeks and

1271
00:54:39,370 --> 00:54:37,220
they'll pull it off if the ratings

1272
00:54:41,590 --> 00:54:39,380
aren't well enough and they cancelled

1273
00:54:43,990 --> 00:54:41,600
the nature of the naked skeptics of BBC

1274
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:44,000
foreign Cambridge in the UK which I

1275
00:54:49,990 --> 00:54:47,090
adore dr. Cal was another one always in

1276
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:50,000
with well I mean the BBC is only in

1277
00:54:55,300 --> 00:54:51,530
slightly this financial trouble of the

1278
00:54:57,130 --> 00:54:55,310
ABC and don't mention me in HS

1279
00:54:59,050 --> 00:54:57,140
internet look have a good weekend enjoy

1280
00:55:05,440 --> 00:54:59,060
yourself and don't call kathai sir no

1281
00:55:07,750 --> 00:55:05,450
thank you sir I shan't I'm here with

1282
00:55:09,340 --> 00:55:07,760
Adam and it's really really hot and

1283
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:09,350
sticky anymore when last time I was

1284
00:55:12,340 --> 00:55:10,610
talking to you I was sweating like a pig

1285
00:55:13,900 --> 00:55:12,350
Adam it's a yeah it feels like it was

1286
00:55:16,540 --> 00:55:13,910
only yesterday i'm actually still

1287
00:55:18,370 --> 00:55:16,550
sweating from yesterday I that's three

1288
00:55:21,730 --> 00:55:18,380
showers later as well now what is your

1289
00:55:23,620 --> 00:55:21,740
position at McKinnon high school Mike

1290
00:55:25,810 --> 00:55:23,630
well my official position maths teacher

1291
00:55:27,010 --> 00:55:25,820
because my unofficial position guys suit

1292
00:55:28,990 --> 00:55:27,020
up the back of the staff room and does

1293
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:29,000
very little work but look look let me

1294
00:55:31,780 --> 00:55:30,530
tell you people i was there you came out

1295
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:31,790
and there was a whole bunch a year

1296
00:55:37,330 --> 00:55:34,970
sevens and you told them to shut their

1297
00:55:39,850 --> 00:55:37,340
beeswax and they did and that is an

1298
00:55:41,050 --> 00:55:39,860
amazing skill I you know and I think

1299
00:55:43,030 --> 00:55:41,060
I've got to credit the actual kids

1300
00:55:45,370 --> 00:55:43,040
themselves more than our more than me

1301
00:55:48,100 --> 00:55:45,380
there are an amazing group of kids very

1302
00:55:50,500 --> 00:55:48,110
very well-behaved polite intelligent and

1303
00:55:51,970 --> 00:55:50,510
curious yeah look at we had a couple of

1304
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:51,980
them earlier here tapping the microphone

1305
00:55:55,260 --> 00:55:53,570
hello what are you expecting to get from

1306
00:55:58,210 --> 00:55:55,270
the skeptics meeting over the weekend

1307
00:55:59,410 --> 00:55:58,220
you don't know but that's when you but

1308
00:56:00,340 --> 00:55:59,420
that's when you're the most curious when

1309
00:56:01,530 --> 00:56:00,350
you don't know what you're going to get

1310
00:56:03,660 --> 00:56:01,540
yeah

1311
00:56:06,180 --> 00:56:03,670
and here's someone that I spoke to as

1312
00:56:07,890 --> 00:56:06,190
well what's your name again Elizabeth as

1313
00:56:10,220 --> 00:56:07,900
someone young who's been exposed to a

1314
00:56:12,780 --> 00:56:10,230
little bit of the paranormal and the

1315
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:12,790
parapsychology land a Current Affair

1316
00:56:16,650 --> 00:56:14,530
this day to night those kind of shows

1317
00:56:18,210 --> 00:56:16,660
what gets you the most angry when you

1318
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:18,220
see something on TV is there something I

1319
00:56:21,420 --> 00:56:19,930
ask this other day and you said nothing

1320
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:21,430
really makes you throw a brick at the

1321
00:56:24,690 --> 00:56:23,410
television but is it something that an

1322
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:24,700
area that you really like to investigate

1323
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:27,370
and debunk you don't want anything in

1324
00:56:32,100 --> 00:56:29,410
fitness magazines i absolutely hate

1325
00:56:33,900 --> 00:56:32,110
women's health fitness magazines they

1326
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:33,910
visit me often are in is they're just

1327
00:56:37,740 --> 00:56:36,610
full of all it's as a young woman do you

1328
00:56:39,150 --> 00:56:37,750
think they're they're preying on some

1329
00:56:42,210 --> 00:56:39,160
sort of vulnerability that well

1330
00:56:44,370 --> 00:56:42,220
everybody feels absolutely sir so many

1331
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:44,380
self-conscious women so many people that

1332
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:45,970
want to change themselves in there

1333
00:56:50,370 --> 00:56:47,410
looking at these magazines and seeing

1334
00:56:51,900 --> 00:56:50,380
the worst ways to do it it's ridiculous

1335
00:56:53,730 --> 00:56:51,910
so the old story they find the

1336
00:56:55,950 --> 00:56:53,740
vulnerability and use that to sell you

1337
00:56:57,570 --> 00:56:55,960
something pretty much yeah that's done

1338
00:56:58,980 --> 00:56:57,580
who you going to be looking forward to

1339
00:57:01,590 --> 00:56:58,990
seeing the most over the weekend i

1340
00:57:03,660 --> 00:57:01,600
should say mr. because it's standing

1341
00:57:05,610 --> 00:57:03,670
right next to me but you know I see him

1342
00:57:07,380 --> 00:57:05,620
too many times already I believe the

1343
00:57:09,900 --> 00:57:07,390
expression is he gets old fast I think

1344
00:57:11,220 --> 00:57:09,910
that's why saying exactly and probably

1345
00:57:13,230 --> 00:57:11,230
the person who's most thoroughly

1346
00:57:15,900 --> 00:57:13,240
brainwashed me rebecca watson i'm very

1347
00:57:18,090 --> 00:57:15,910
excited to see her inspiring and the

1348
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:18,100
word i keep using is feisty yes exactly

1349
00:57:21,210 --> 00:57:19,930
right well i hope you get to meet and

1350
00:57:23,420 --> 00:57:21,220
have a good chat with it yeah make you

1351
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:23,430
very much greater oh yeah i mean like a

1352
00:57:28,050 --> 00:57:26,050
seem to have a respect for you and you

1353
00:57:30,030 --> 00:57:28,060
seem to do well with them as well it's a

1354
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:30,040
new it's all an act really it's a you

1355
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:31,090
know they just do it so they get an

1356
00:57:34,260 --> 00:57:32,530
opportunity to get out of class every

1357
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:34,270
now and again but i appreciate it

1358
00:57:38,790 --> 00:57:36,850
nonetheless okay as someone who would be

1359
00:57:40,530 --> 00:57:38,800
terrified of being a parent you actually

1360
00:57:41,700 --> 00:57:40,540
a teacher who has to face the

1361
00:57:43,410 --> 00:57:41,710
difficulties of being with all a bunch

1362
00:57:44,460 --> 00:57:43,420
of kids every day um how do you do that

1363
00:57:45,570 --> 00:57:44,470
because they can be a little bit you

1364
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:45,580
know mchugh

1365
00:57:51,130 --> 00:57:49,130
they can but I just tell myself ten past

1366
00:57:52,450 --> 00:57:51,140
three I get to go and don't have to

1367
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:52,460
worry about them anymore their parents

1368
00:57:55,870 --> 00:57:54,530
can deal with them at that point well

1369
00:57:57,310 --> 00:57:55,880
you're going to see a few people using

1370
00:57:59,680 --> 00:57:57,320
their brain here over this weekend so

1371
00:58:01,090 --> 00:57:59,690
that should be in warning for you well

1372
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:01,100
in Wayne warning i just made up a word

1373
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:04,370
they're warming for you I mean I like in

1374
00:58:07,090 --> 00:58:05,570
war meaning it would have would have

1375
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:07,100
been appropriate for yesterday I think

1376
00:58:24,019 --> 00:58:09,530
yes thanks Adam and enjoy yourself here

1377
00:58:28,859 --> 00:58:26,609
did you see that UFO sighting that made

1378
00:58:30,569 --> 00:58:28,869
the news what did that latest study

1379
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:30,579
about alternative treatments really say

1380
00:58:35,970 --> 00:58:33,010
is this photo making the rounds real or

1381
00:58:37,829 --> 00:58:35,980
hoax doubtful news is a unique website

1382
00:58:39,990 --> 00:58:37,839
featuring news about pseudoscience the

1383
00:58:41,690 --> 00:58:40,000
paranormal anomalies and questionable

1384
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:41,700
claims framed with the skeptical view

1385
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:44,650
come visit doubtful newscom every day

1386
00:58:50,130 --> 00:58:46,410
for news about cryptozoology

1387
00:58:53,039 --> 00:58:50,140
conspiracies shams scams and more follow

1388
00:58:54,599 --> 00:58:53,049
us on twitter at doubtful news critical

1389
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:54,609
thinking is essential in assessing

1390
00:59:12,410 --> 00:58:56,890
today's news duffel news helps you

1391
00:59:18,420 --> 00:59:15,210
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1392
00:59:20,660 --> 00:59:18,430
zone now if the Australian vaccination

1393
00:59:22,910 --> 00:59:20,670
Network need to change their name I

1394
00:59:25,349 --> 00:59:22,920
wonder what they could change it to

1395
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:25,359
maybe you can come up with an idea to

1396
00:59:29,790 --> 00:59:27,970
help them out yeah what would you call

1397
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:29,800
the Australian vaccination network or

1398
00:59:35,940 --> 00:59:31,690
what do you think they should now call

1399
00:59:38,430 --> 00:59:35,950
themselves it boggles the mind next week

1400
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:38,440
show is coming to you from a surprise

1401
00:59:44,730 --> 00:59:41,970
location a surprise location yeah

1402
00:59:47,490 --> 00:59:44,740
somewhere I haven't been for a very long

1403
00:59:51,540 --> 00:59:47,500
time in fact I'm going somewhere I

1404
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:51,550
haven't been for over 40 years oh I

1405
00:59:55,829 --> 00:59:54,010
wonder if it's changed i'll let you

1406
00:59:58,829 --> 00:59:55,839
wonder about that over the next week and

1407
01:00:01,349 --> 00:59:58,839
until then we have thanks to those

1408
01:00:03,510 --> 01:00:01,359
people of course who chip in to the

1409
01:00:05,750 --> 01:00:03,520
skeptics under to help keep the show

1410
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:05,760
ticking over this is Richard Saunders

1411
01:00:16,109 --> 01:00:12,730
signing off from Sydney Australia you've

1412
01:00:20,700 --> 01:00:16,119
been listening to the skeptic zone visit

1413
01:00:23,190 --> 01:00:20,710
our website at www skeptics on TV for